Leaving the Church
to Follow Christ

Sept. 25, 2023, Updated 1.19.24

Hi, my name is Doug Gneiting.
It's about time I introduce myself.

It has been almost two years since I started writing essays and posting them on this website. I didn’t want to put my name on here for a variety of reasons, but one of them was that I didn’t want any of the focus to be on me but allow people to learn and discern with less bias. We often place too much emphasis on names and titles. And secondly, I knew that doing so would most likely hasten my exit from the LDS church, and I wasn’t ready for that at the time. Church handbook policy states that if I were to publicly speak up against any church doctrines, policies, or practices, I would be labeled an apostate, and you know what happens to apostates. (That’s actually in the church Handbook BTW. No wonder so many people have a hard time being authentic or put on a facade at church.)

Change can be difficult at times. Especially when you start to get as old as I am. From the time I can remember, the LDS/Mormon church has always been there. Some of the earliest memories I have are playing with toys in nursery class. From that time on the church and its culture saturated the social fabric of my life. All of my family and most of my extended family were members. All of my friends were members. It was typical to get together at least twice a week in some type of social capacity, either for worship, scouts, or other youth programs. I served a two-year mission to Spain, attended a church-run school, and married my beautiful wife in the temple. We raised our children in the church and taught them a similar path. I served in all sorts of callings and met some of the most wonderful people and made amazing friendships that remain today.

This is why choosing to leave the church, and having my records removed, has been one of the most impactful decisions in my life, incurring great heartache and immense joy and peace. To avoid any ambiguity here, yes, I am no longer a Mormon.

For anyone who has never been a member, this may not be that big of a deal. I mean, people move in and out of religions all the time. However, certain beliefs within the LDS church are unique. To leave the church means that you have essentially thrown away your salvation and exaltation. According to one church leader, leaving means you “say goodbye to your whole concept of God. If you want to walk away from the church, say goodbye to anything in your life that counts or matters beyond this life.” (Brad Wilcox) In many ways, this man said the quiet part out loud as far as church culture is concerned. For some reason, members think that to leave the church means you forget everything you’ve ever learned. My experience has been just the opposite. My connection to God has grown exponentially and those things that really matter in the eternities are becoming far more clear. 

During the process of resetting my foundation of faith, I began to see God’s hand in everything. I began to remove my judgment of others, to see God’s love for all of Their children, and that They are okay with us pursuing all sorts of paths in life. While I truly do love and appreciate many things I’ve learned in the LDS church, the words of Amy Call resonate on a very personal level with me. Amy had what is called an NDE, or Near Death Experience. She was LDS at the time and eventually left the church. I really connect with her description of why she left when she said, “I realized that for me to continue to thrive, and to do well, coming back into it (the church) almost felt like I was trying to put clothes on that were way too small for me.” 

As part of Amy’s NDE experience, she also asked the following question to her guide while in Heaven, “What church is true?” Mind you, she was LDS at the time. Her guide kind of smiled and slowly lowered their head. The impression she received was that her question was akin to asking what kind of cheese the moon was made out of. It wasn’t that her question was bad, simply misdirected given how her perspective was seated in current paradigms. (See Amy’s NDE: Video 1 / Video 2)

I don’t share these stories to disparage anyone within the church, nor as an attempt to justify my leaving the church, but a simple fact that certain truths that have become part of who I am do not fit within the box of LDS paradigms. As part of my resignation letter, I stated how I’ve “come to believe that any religion that strives to bring you closer to God has truth in it. There is no perfect religion. For any religious organization to preach that their belief system is the only path back to God and that a person cannot fully come unto the Savior but through their religious dogmas, is the very belief that will slow or stop one’s progression in the heavens. Many religions paint a picture of their path back to God, but we can only truly understand the beautiful vistas and grandeur of heaven by experiencing God ourselves.” 

In March of 1842, Joseph Smith published the Articles of Faith in the church’s Times & Seasons newspaper. This short document outlines 13 basic doctrines, beliefs, and practices of the time. As I pondered on that list, I got the idea of writing my own personal Articles of Faith. Doing so has been quite an enlightening experience that I highly recommend to anyone. So, without further delay, the following is a condensed (and not comprehensive) set of beliefs upon which I continue to build my foundation of faith. 

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My Articles of Faith / September 25, 2023

:: God ::

I believe that we are all created in the image of God, both male and female, which means we have both a Father and Mother in Heaven. It was the covenant made between Them, in combining their endowments, that brought together matter and gave all of creation purpose and awareness. They truly are our Creators and are often known as Elohim or God (plural) and are perfectly aligned and unified in Their purposes. Their love permeates the whole of existence and is in all of creation. I love Them with all my heart. (See Know God)

:: Jesus Christ ::

God’s creations and children learned and progressed through eons of time. One central figure was Christ or Yeshua, having ascended beyond all of our Heavenly Parents' children, becoming a God in His own right. He is both the Father and the Son, those names being titles. As part of the great council in heaven, He willingly accepted the role of Savior and Redeemer, making an atonement to help all of creation overcome the sorrow and suffering that comes through agency, that agency being a vital aspect of our progression. I have felt His redeeming love on a very personal and intimate level.

:: The Holy Ghost ::

The Holy Ghost is spirit (whether that be one or many) and is a member of the Godhead. It plays a vital role in helping all of creation progress. The Spirit conveys the mind and will of Elohim to us, brings all things to our remembrance, and is often referred to as the sealing power of the Holy Spirit of Promise which binds both on Earth and in Heaven and prepares us to stand in the presence of the Lord. There are also many gifts of the Spirit which can be manifest in countless ways.  

:: Satan (good vs evil) ::

Satan is real. In the premortal realm, he progressed to the point of garnering the title of Lucifer, or “the morning star, bearer of light.” One of his great accomplishments is convincing people that He does not exist and that good and evil are relative and defined by the fluctuating currents of society. There is also nothing that evil does that God is not aware of. God understands the importance of having balance between good and evil. Lehi, in his masterful sermon, taught the need for opposition in all things. Without good and evil, righteousness and wickedness, God would cease to exist. By having the ability to learn from our choices, we are given the opportunity to grow in ways that are unique to this world and life experience.

:: Adam & Eve ::

God’s children are Their masterpiece. As mentioned previously, we are created in Their image. At some point in the progression of God’s children, space was created known as the Garden of Eden, allowing God’s children to interact with Them, yet Their children remained in a state of innocence where they could only progress so far. In order to fulfill the measure of their creation, it was necessary for them to be given their full agency. Adam and Eve are often shunned by the Christian world for their role in helping all of us enter mortality. Eve was willing to partake of the fruit in order to help us all progress, knowing that sorrow and suffering would be part of that experience, yet also bring about immense joy and growth that could happen in no other sphere. 

:: Scripture ::

I love reading inspired writings and value them immensely. Do I believe everything they say? No. If it was written by the hand of man (or woman), it may contain the paradigms or intentions of the author and often correlates to time and place. But even with that, I am grateful for the Bible and the truths it contains. With the passage of time, various doctrines and principles have been hidden and/or changed, but there is great truth in it. I also love the Book of Mormon and believe it to be what it purports to be, even another witness of Jesus Christ. Is it a perfect record? No. But it does help clarify the teachings of the Bible and presents beautiful and enriching truths as well as standing as a stark example of the pride of nations and a prophetic witness of future events.

I would be amiss if I did not include The Nemenhah Records on this list. That record has increased both my love for the Book of Mormon and expanded my understanding and perspective of doctrine and principles beyond any other collection of writings to date. I know that is a bold claim, but it is true. I also find that “scripture” is relative. God has inspired men and women throughout the ages with great wisdom and knowledge. The most vital part to all of this is the importance of discerning truth through the gift of the Holy Ghost. (See The Nemenhah Records)

:: Joseph Smith & Prophets ::

I believe that Joseph was a prophet in the true sense of the word. Was he perfect? No. But he was a central figure in bringing forth much light and truth into this world, the Book of Mormon being a central work. I also believe many lies have been and are taught about him. Even the LDS church teaches lies about him because they have to. If Joseph wasn’t a polygamist, then what happened after he and his brothers were murdered? It means that sexual perversions, abuse, and pedophilia were taught as exalting doctrines by Brigham Young and others. BTW, the Lord does not teach truths through lies and deception. Nowhere in scripture will you find the Lord teaching exalting doctrines through hypocrisy. 

I believe that God does call prophets, and speaks to them and through them. The title prophet is gender-neutral, both men and women can be prophets. They play many roles, including teacher and servant, and are often tasked with prophesying, revealing, and calling people and nations to repentance. These are just a few of the many fruits of a servant of the Lord. Jesus specifically taught that even His anointed prophets can transgress and lead you astray. Nearly every canon of scripture includes this teaching of not placing our trust in the arm of flesh. Some of the least understood verses with regard to this role are Amos 3:7 and D&C 1:38. (See The Parable of the Hand, Food, and Eye)

:: The Priesthood ::

I believe the Lord does call servants and gives them His commission to lead in various capacities. Keys and authority do not pass simply through the laying on of hands. A perfect example of this was King Noah and Alma. King Noah was the High Priest and used his supposed authority to elevate his friends above the people and commit all manner of abominations. Alma on the other hand fled the courts and was visited by the Lord, receiving a personal commission as His servant. In our day, keys, authority, and titles have become idols among the people. They are worshiped and revered well beyond their intended role. The reason this is so important is because the misalignment of this principle impacts all aspects of the LDS religious experience. The Priesthood commission is given so that a person may act in the name of the Lord, doing those things that He would do.

It is also important to note a teaching from the Nemenhah Records. The Lord taught that all women have been given endowments from our Mother in Heaven. Here are a few verses that detail the great gift given to the daughters of God and represent a beautiful balance in the gifts and endowments given to us from Them: 

20) Behold, I do confer authority upon those men who would follow me and do the things they see me do. And unto such is made an ordination, that they may speak and act in my name, and be justified in so doing.

21) But I do not confer such upon the women, for they have of my Mother in Heaven that which I cannot give. Wherefore, I do ordain them.

22) But the Priesthood they have already cannot be given, nor taken away, but by that person who gave it. Wherefore, if there be any woman who desires to follow me and do the things they see me do, they are authorized from the foundation of the world, and I do justify them.

23) For, the daughters of Eve do sacrifice of themselves freely for the sake of all living. For this cause did Adam call her name Eve. For she is the Mother of all Living. (The Second Book of Samuel, Chapter 7)

:: The Temple ::

God’s people have often worshiped in temples through the ages. They should be houses of learning where higher laws and ordinances are expounded upon, enabling us to pierce the veil of forgetfulness and be taught personally by the Lord and entertain angels and our ancestors. When taught correctly, the Pillar of the Gospel & Obedience, the Pillar of Sacrifice, and the Pillar of Consecration purify the soul. In reality, we are all the temple of God, “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? (1 Corinthians 3:16)

We also know from scripture that these same edifices can become corrupted and are idols unto the people. Nephi, from the Book of Mormon, gives one of the clearest examples of this: “Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up. They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.” (2 Nephi 28:12-13)

I feel the Lord does not approve of how modern temples have become a means of manipulating the minds of the saints and used as leverage to compel them to obey the arm of flesh. In a very real sense, they have become a place of dead works. The focus should be on the living, not the dead. Money (especially an incorrect tithe) should never be required to make covenants with the Lord, nor should people be required to sustain or bind themselves to any man and their ever-fluctuating doctrines.

The most clear and beautiful example I have of what the endowment should be comes from The Nemenhah Records. All people were invited to learn the Pillars or Laws and each family taught these principles in the home to their children. Also, their endowment took many days (not hours) as they expounded upon the laws and principles taught to them by Christ.

:: The Purpose of Life::

This life is an opportunity for us to learn and grow. It is not a place where we are handed our final judgment (as if “final” is a thing anyway). It is not a courtroom. Please consider how unloving it would be for parents to send their children off to school, removing any and all knowledge of what they had learned before (aka the veil of forgetfulness), then giving each of them different and unique experiences and expecting all of them to take the same pass or fail test at the end. 

Just as a bodybuilder becomes stronger through resistance, we also learn some of the greatest lessons in life through hardship and struggle. As we are tested and tried through these experiences, our very nature becomes refined in a similar manner to how gold is purified and the dross removed. 

:: Eternity & Progression ::

Our spirits are eternal. I like how Vinny Tolman has shared that if we were to extend a thin cord out into space, infinitely in both directions, placing a single grain of sand on that line would represent this mortal existence. I also believe that once we pass from this life we enter an appropriate kingdom or glory, but that glory is not fixed as some religions teach. Were God to assign a fixed glory to their children, without the possibility of progression, and that soul be made aware of further light and knowledge, any kingdom or glory would become hell if further progression was withheld from them. There are as many glories or Heavens as God’s creations need. (I highly recommend Vinny Tolman’s book: The Light After Death)

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There are dozens of additional themes I could expand upon, but I think this list is sufficient for now. I’m also really excited to revisit my Articles of Faith in the future to see how my faith journey is progressing. This process of writing has helped me realize just how important it is that we define our beliefs and review and revisit them often. The principles upon which we build our foundation of faith are very important. The life we create for ourselves is built upon these core beliefs. Nothing comes into existence except we first create it spiritually in our minds. As the Proverb so beautifully teaches, “For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.”

In conversations with friends, I often express how excited I am when the Spirit teaches me something about my beliefs and way of thinking that isn’t quite right. The faster I can learn of my incorrect beliefs, the faster I can progress. 

Things we have learned

Here are a few things we’ve learned in the process of having our records removed: (yes, I said “we”, I’m not the only member of my family that has moved forward.)

⭑ There are a few different ways to have your records removed. 

1) You can contact your local leadership (bishop/stake president) and let them know that you’d like to have your records removed. They’ll obviously ask why, to which you can respond in as little or as much detail as you’d like. Be authentic about your feelings/beliefs, but only as much as the Spirit directs you to. In my case, it seemed as if my local leaders had little interest in knowing where I was at. But that’s a long story for another day. 

2) You can use quitmormon.org. This is a website where you plug in some basic information and it spits out a form to mail in. Apparently, people were sending in requests for people who didn’t want their records removed, so the church now requires the letters to be notarized. I prefer option #3 below.

3) Write your own letter and send it directly to the membership department of the church. I’d highly suggest you notarize this letter as well. This is what we did. A copy of that letter is included below. 

UPDATE: I recently learned from a friend that you can expedite the process by getting your letter notarized and email a scanned copy to the following email address: confidentialrecords@churchofjesuschrist.org (The church sent a response to my friend the same day)

⭑ Just in case you glossed over points 2 and 3 above, you do need to have your letter notarized and there is a small fee for that service. You have to pay to get into the church, and to get out.

⭑ I’d highly recommend you include a timeframe for when you’d like to have your records removed. We requested our records be removed within 5 business days. Our names were removed from LDS Tools within 2 days of them receiving the letter. Friends of ours sent in their letters with no specific timeframe, and they have yet to hear back from the church after 4 ½ months. From what I've heard, most people hear back in about two months. Maybe they expedited ours because I included a link to my website… 😊

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I want to inject a little side note here. The girl who notarized our letter couldn’t have been more perfect. She had bright pink hair, multiple piercings in her ears and lip, and tattoos all over her body. I had no judgment of her and the way she chose to express herself, “for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.” (I Samuel 16:7) 

In various conversations, the question often arises as to why even go to the effort of removing your records. And for some people, stopping their activity or contact with the church may be sufficient for them. I see things a little differently. Here’s why:

  1. Due to being so outspoken in my belief system, I’ve visited with many, many people about the doctrines of the church. It would actually seem a bit hypocritical of me to remain when I feel they have distorted or changed so many simple and beautiful truths.

  2. By removing our records, the church can no longer continue to include our family in the statistical reports. I want to help wake up the saints who are wondering WTH is going on, even if that only pushes (or slows) the data a minuscule amount. 

  3. I take control of how I interact with the church. They no longer have the “authority” to bring me into a church court to have me excommunicated. They also know a little bit about where I stand on various principles and doctrines and this levels the playing field if they ever choose to have a conversation in the future. They no longer have the leverage of withholding blessings because I won’t sustain them. 

  4. With our records no longer on the rolls of the church, we are excited to see who actually visits our home out of the kindness of their hearts, and not because they are fulfilling a calling. 

  5. This last part is probably the most important. I saw a very real spiritual cord connecting me to the church and its culture. There are also various ordinances and laws that I agreed to that I now believe were taught incorrectly. I want to sever that connection. Keeping my membership would always be in the back of my mind and I want to move forward spiritually. 

You are not alone 

During this journey, I have made some wonderful new friends. I think some members of the church would be shocked to learn that there are people who feel very similar to the way I do, but for one reason or another, remain in the church. These people serve in many types of callings, including stake presidencies, high councils, bishoprics, elders quorum presidencies, relief society presidencies, YM/YW presidencies, and many, many run-of-the-mill members who are some of the most spiritual people that I know. In fact, I’ve noticed that many of these people are very well-versed in the scriptures, whereas I often see people who defend the church simply out of culture or tradition, but God doesn’t seem to play a significant role in their lives outside of church. That’s not true in all cases, but I’ve seen various patterns emerge over the last few years.

To my family

I’d like to include a note here to my family and close friends who know my beautiful wife. If it is not apparent, I am a bit more outspoken than she is, but that does not mean that I have strong-armed or manipulated her into following my way of thinking. If that thought ever crossed your mind, then you don’t know her very well. She is an amazing woman in her own right, is fully capable of making her own decisions and forming her own beliefs and opinions, and has immense love in her heart for all of you. I am blessed to call her the love of my life.

As far as my children are concerned, they too are free to believe as they wish. I will love them always, regardless of any decision to either remain or leave a church. The only thing I ask of them is to explain why they believe what they believe. I value having deep conversations with them on a vast array of subjects. I want them to know that God is always there and that they should check in with heaven often. 

If you have questions about the decisions we have made or the beliefs we hold, please come and talk to us. If you don’t want to talk, that’s also fine and we respect that decision. We’ll love you unconditionally. What I do not care for is people talking about us behind our backs and assuming all sorts of things without having the kindness to communicate those feelings in a rational and adult manner. If you want to gossip, then I feel sorry for you and will pray for you.

I truly do enjoy having conversations about life and things of a spiritual nature. I find that people have a tendency to shy away from conversations that may contradict their viewpoints. We need to get over that. I hope that we can come to the understanding that just because we may see things differently, doesn’t mean we have to dislike each other. We can still love each other and disagree to one degree or another. Simply having a different perspective, and expressing those beliefs passionately, is not the “spirit of contention.” Please feel free to reach out and maybe we can connect. (info@reluctantwatchman.com)

Please know that God loves you now and always. 

Shalom

Here is a PDF version of our resignation letter to the church with personal data removed.

  • September 15, 2023

    Member Records Division, LDS Church
    50 E North Temple, Room 1372
    SLC, UT 84150-5310

    ———

    Doug & Michelle Gneiting
    (Address)

    ———

    To whom it may concern,

    The past few years have been one of the greatest spiritual journeys for our family. Through fasting, prayer, diligent study of scripture, and personal spiritual experiences, we have gained a renewed appreciation and love for Jesus Christ and His gospel. Our desire and commitment to follow Him have grown immensely. It is for this reason that we must request that our membership records be removed from the LDS church. We have many families and friends who remain in the church and our love and prayers go out to all of them. While we hold strongly to many beliefs espoused by the early church, there are other more modern beliefs that do not align with truth, some even directly contradicting Christ’s teachings. Due to church policy, should we voice our beliefs publicly, we will be labeled as “apostates” and church discipline will surely be taken. We love Elohim far more than our desire to follow the policies of man. We will not be silent when the Spirit speaks to our hearts. Removing our records from the church is an important part of our spiritual progression.

    We do not expect anyone to understand the journey we have undertaken and the thoughts and impressions the Holy Ghost has written upon our hearts. It is impossible to encapsulate a lifetime of prayer, study, and understanding as witnessed by the Spirit into a few paragraphs; even volumes of writing would be insufficient. Just know that our hearts and minds desire to follow God and not be bound by various beliefs and traditions set by man.

    A few words to the leadership of the church. We cannot judge your hearts. That task is held alone by the Lord. But what we can do is evaluate your fruits. Duplicitous doctrines and philosophies are frequently taught, one often contradicting the other. There are very foundational doctrines taught by Christ that you are preaching against. Our souls ache as we contemplate the pride that has permeated the Lord’s house. As Peter declared to the president of the ancient Jewish Church in his day: “Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.” (Acts 4:19)

    As noted previously, we expect no one to understand the path we are taking. We look forward with great anticipation to the day when the Lord pours new wine into new bottles. For surely, He will take his gospel from among the gentiles and “remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.” (3 Nephi 16:10-11)

    We also believe that any religion that strives to bring you closer to God has truth in it. There is no perfect religion. For any religious organization to preach that their belief system is the only path back to God, and that a person cannot fully come unto the Savior but through their religious dogmas, is the very belief that will slow or stop one’s progression in the heavens. Many religions paint a picture of their path back to God, but we can only truly understand the beautiful vistas and grandeur of heaven by experiencing God ourselves.

    ———

    This letter is our formal resignation from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and is effective immediately. We hereby withdraw our consent to being treated as members and withdraw our consent to being subject to church rules, policies, beliefs, and discipline. As such we want our names, contact information, and all other notes, annotations, archives, or other records of any kind containing our names, permanently and completely removed from the records of the church within 5 business days of receipt of this notice.

    The church handbook states that our resignation “cancels the effects of baptism and confirmation, withdraws the priesthood held by a male member and revokes temple blessings.” We strongly and heartily disagree with this statement. Our covenants were made with God, not man, and we intend to keep those covenants (and any future covenants) that we deem as being taught and authorized by the Lord.

    Our resignation should be processed immediately, without any waiting periods. We expect this matter to be handled promptly, with respect and with full confidentiality. We will decide when and with whom this information is to be shared.

    We would appreciate nothing more than to discuss in greater detail our reasons for leaving the church to align ourselves more closely to Christ’s teachings. We love talking about Christ and His gospel. We find rigorous spiritual discussion to be enlightening and invigorating, but only if hearts and minds are open to learning, believing nothing unless a witness is received from the Holy Ghost. If anyone from the local church leadership would like to reach out to us, we request any initial communication be done by email which can be sent to info@reluctantwatchman.com. The only contact from church headquarters should be a mailed notification that our request has been processed.

    If you would like to know more about our decision to leave the church, please visit www.reluctantwatchman.com.

    Sincerely,
    Doug & Michelle Gneiting

    (Signatures, dates, full name, date of birth, membership #s, and notary stamp and signature were included as part of this letter)

  • In a recent general conference of the LDS church, the president, Russell M. Nelson, said the following:

    “As you think celestial, you will view trials and opposition in a new light. When someone you love attacks truth, think celestial and don’t question your testimony. The apostle Paul prophesied that “in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.” There is no end to the adversary’s deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek guidance from voices you can trust. From prophets, seers, and revelators and from the whisperings of the Holy Ghost who will show unto you the things what ye should do. Please do the spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation. As you think celestial, your faith will increase.”

    I could spend the time to analyze his entire talk, but what good would that do any of us? If you don’t see anything wrong with these statements, then I don’t know what to say. Just as Brad Wilcox was quoted in my essay, apparently you lose your connection to truth when you vocalize your disagreement with how church leaders are teaching and practicing their flavor of doctrine, and you are following “doctrines of devils.” Basically, you follow Satan if you leave.

    I would hope that any student of Christ’s teachings will find a huge disparity between what is taught in scripture and what the church (and specifically this leader) teach as doctrine. Some of us have left the church because the beliefs and doctrines taught by various men are either misguided, hurtful, or offend the Spirit. The phrase, “The philosophies of men, mingled with scripture” comes to mind.

Disclaimer: Only a small portion of my thoughts and feelings are contained within this essay. It is nearly impossible to condense a lifetime of study, thoughts, and impressions, into a few paragraphs. I value and encourage the need for altering perspective as new light and knowledge is acquired. One of the best ways to know a person’s heart is to sit down and talk face-to-face, perhaps while consuming a mild barley drink.